THIS is the first picture of an 18-year-old student who died after being shot in the chest.
Philip Poru was fatally shot as he sat in a silver Ford Fiesta in Long Walk, Plumstead, at around 10pm on Sunday(October 14).
Mr Poru was with another man, aged 18, who was also injured and who is now in hospital in a stable condition.
The men are thought to have been shot by two suspects who approached the vehicle.
A post-mortem examination revealed Mr Poru died of gunshot wounds to the chest.
Police patrols are due to be increased in the area, following the murder.
No arrests have yet been made and police are keeping an open mind as to whether the incident is gang related.
A mother-of-two who lives on the estate, who has asked not to be named due to fear of repercussions, said: "I heard two cars drive up and after a couple of seconds I heard five shots.
"When I looked outside I didn't see anything and it was only when my neighbour told me afterwards I knew there had been a shooting.
"It's very scary because round here it's really quiet. I hope it's a one-off because I've got to bring my children up here."
Another resident, who also asked not to be named, said: "I thought I heard a big bang but assumed it was fireworks because lots get set off around now.
"But there have been about five attacks in the past month and it's generally got worse in the past year.
"Lately, it's got quite rough round here and there have been gangs hanging around."
Another resident said: "I heard about four cracks some time after 9.30pm and it sounded like someone was breaking stuff outside.
If you have any information about this, call the Operation Trident incident room on 020 8247 4553 or to remain anonymous, call Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111.
8:17pm Tuesday 16th October 2007
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CommentPosted by: Des, SE on 1:52pm Mon 15 Oct 07
My heart goes out the family for there lose.
BUt FFS this has got to stop
Trident yet again anyone see a trend in all these stabbings and gun killings
My heart goes out the family for there lose.
BUt FFS this has got to stop
Trident yet again anyone see a trend in all these stabbings and gun killings
Posted by: Ben, Belvedere on 2:16pm Mon 15 Oct 07
Another murder within a couple of miles of myself... Is there any stop to this? The victim is also the 21st teenager to die in Greater London as a result of knife and gun crime. Surely this problem needs resolving as it's a pretty big thing now and nothing seems to be stopping these people from commiting murder or assault with knives and guns!
Another murder within a couple of miles of myself... Is there any stop to this? The victim is also the 21st teenager to die in Greater London as a result of knife and gun crime. Surely this problem needs resolving as it's a pretty big thing now and nothing seems to be stopping these people from commiting murder or assault with knives and guns!
Posted by: me, woolwich on 2:41pm Mon 15 Oct 07
this is the 5th incident i have heard since friday what is this place coming to.something has to be done sooner rather than later,to many lives are being taken .......for what.
this is the 5th incident i have heard since friday what is this place coming to.something has to be done sooner rather than later,to many lives are being taken .......for what.
Posted by: Dom, Kidbrooke on 3:14pm Mon 15 Oct 07
Poor lad. RIP. To be honest I have lost count of how many youths lives have been lost this year in London, due to stabbings and shootings. My sister is 14 and my cousin is 6, and I don't want them growing up with this violence all around them. It has got to stop NOW!
Poor lad. RIP. To be honest I have lost count of how many youths lives have been lost this year in London, due to stabbings and shootings. My sister is 14 and my cousin is 6, and I don't want them growing up with this violence all around them. It has got to stop NOW!
Posted by: Des, SE on 3:30pm Mon 15 Oct 07
Worrying thing is
The stabbing in Ampleforth Rd last week never made the headlines, strangly and the shooting in Kale Rd Thamesmead last Thursday did not make it on here
Worrying thing is
The stabbing in Ampleforth Rd last week never made the headlines, strangly and the shooting in Kale Rd Thamesmead last Thursday did not make it on here
Posted by: Me, Bexleyheath on 3:30pm Mon 15 Oct 07
Dear Mr G.Brown, it's good to see that you have your priorites right. Tax everyone up to the eyelids and turn a blind eye to all the innocent people that are being knifed and shot at the moment. Thanks very much. A citizen of crime ridden London.
Dear Mr G.Brown, it's good to see that you have your priorites right. Tax everyone up to the eyelids and turn a blind eye to all the innocent people that are being knifed and shot at the moment. Thanks very much. A citizen of crime ridden London.
Posted by: Simon Bull, web editor, News Shopper on 4:10pm Mon 15 Oct 07
Des,
Was the Kale Rd incident a stabbing rather than a shooting? If so we've reported on that one quite extensively over the past few days.
The other incident you mentioned isn't immediately familiar to me but then if it was a serious stabbing and was one we were told about by the police then I'm sure we would have done something. If you can give me a few more details on that one, I can look into it.
Des,
Was the Kale Rd incident a stabbing rather than a shooting? If so we've reported on that one quite extensively over the past few days.
The other incident you mentioned isn't immediately familiar to me but then if it was a serious stabbing and was one we were told about by the police then I'm sure we would have done something. If you can give me a few more details on that one, I can look into it.
Posted by: Ben, Belvedere on 4:16pm Mon 15 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Me[/bold] wrote:
Dear Mr G.Brown, it's good to see that you have your priorites right. Tax everyone up to the eyelids and turn a blind eye to all the innocent people that are being knifed and shot at the moment. Thanks very much. A citizen of crime ridden London.[/quote] I don't think some of these people being murdered are exactly 'innocent'. They obviously have mixed with people they shouldn't have to get themselves in the situation where they're being murdered. The one in Thamesmead and the Woman in New Cross where innocent victims, but these teenagers being murdered are most likely involved in Drugs and other dodgy dealings.
Me wrote:
Dear Mr G.Brown, it's good to see that you have your priorites right. Tax everyone up to the eyelids and turn a blind eye to all the innocent people that are being knifed and shot at the moment. Thanks very much. A citizen of crime ridden London.
I don't think some of these people being murdered are exactly 'innocent'. They obviously have mixed with people they shouldn't have to get themselves in the situation where they're being murdered. The one in Thamesmead and the Woman in New Cross where innocent victims, but these teenagers being murdered are most likely involved in Drugs and other dodgy dealings.
Posted by: Ron, Yorkshire on 4:47pm Mon 15 Oct 07
I left Plumstead 6 years ago; before this 'explosion' in knives, guns and murders.
Back then, it seemed things were getting worse and I wondered what would happen if it was not sorted out.
It seems we are begining to learn the answer.
Please God, I hope someone does something soon, otherwise I am scared to think what it will be like in another 5 years.
My thoughts go out to the families and friends of the victims.
[bold]I would also like to thank the News Shopper for reporting these stories and keeping us informed.[/bold]
I left Plumstead 6 years ago; before this 'explosion' in knives, guns and murders.
Back then, it seemed things were getting worse and I wondered what would happen if it was not sorted out.
It seems we are begining to learn the answer.
Please God, I hope someone does something soon, otherwise I am scared to think what it will be like in another 5 years.
My thoughts go out to the families and friends of the victims.
I would also like to thank the News Shopper for reporting these stories and keeping us informed. Posted by: Cheryl, Woolwich on 5:29pm Mon 15 Oct 07
It seems to be happening more often than not now and is getting way out of hand. It is now becoming a fact that the youths of this country are running it. Even if they were mixing in the wrong crowd it does not deserve for someone to be shot, stabbed, murdered or any of the above. All the money being spent on regenerating Woolwich will be a complete waste if we don't start controlling the children of today - because thats what they are kids no more than that. My thoughts go out to the boys family and for every other person who seems to be losing someone in such tragic circumstances.
It seems to be happening more often than not now and is getting way out of hand. It is now becoming a fact that the youths of this country are running it. Even if they were mixing in the wrong crowd it does not deserve for someone to be shot, stabbed, murdered or any of the above. All the money being spent on regenerating Woolwich will be a complete waste if we don't start controlling the children of today - because thats what they are kids no more than that. My thoughts go out to the boys family and for every other person who seems to be losing someone in such tragic circumstances.
Posted by: **, Abbeywood on 6:32pm Mon 15 Oct 07
the police in the area do nothing they would rather investigate to the max on the minor crimes as they dont want to get there hands dirty, its only going to get worse. I dread to think what it is going to be like when i eventually have kids, im 19 and i already have 4 friends dead! something needs to be done![bold]bold[/bold]
the police in the area do nothing they would rather investigate to the max on the minor crimes as they dont want to get there hands dirty, its only going to get worse. I dread to think what it is going to be like when i eventually have kids, im 19 and i already have 4 friends dead! something needs to be done!
Posted by: Mike, Woolwich on 6:38pm Mon 15 Oct 07
"Controlling the children of today" is exactly the point here. The softly softly approach the courts take to those under 18 has got to stop. These people need to be punished properly the first time they hav dealings with the type of drugs this sort of incident tends to be over, before they can become killers.
The parents need to get a grip also. If they cant control their offspring then the state needs to revue exactly what financial and housing suport it gives these wayward parents. After all, you can bet its not hard working families that are breeding this evil breed of teenager.
"Controlling the children of today" is exactly the point here. The softly softly approach the courts take to those under 18 has got to stop. These people need to be punished properly the first time they hav dealings with the type of drugs this sort of incident tends to be over, before they can become killers.
The parents need to get a grip also. If they cant control their offspring then the state needs to revue exactly what financial and housing suport it gives these wayward parents. After all, you can bet its not hard working families that are breeding this evil breed of teenager.
Posted by: Ben, Belvedere on 6:43pm Mon 15 Oct 07
According to London Tonight this incident is something to do with gang fueds between gangs from Charlton, Thamesmead and Woolwich so th people envolved are deffinately not INNCOCENT.
According to London Tonight this incident is something to do with gang fueds between gangs from Charlton, Thamesmead and Woolwich so th people envolved are deffinately not INNCOCENT.
Posted by: Mike, Woolwich on 6:47pm Mon 15 Oct 07
[quote][bold]**[/bold] wrote:
the police in the area do nothing they would rather investigate to the max on the minor crimes as they dont want to get there hands dirty, its only going to get worse. I dread to think what it is going to be like when i eventually have kids, im 19 and i already have 4 friends dead! something needs to be done![bold]bold[/bold] [/quote] **, dont you see - these people commit minor crime too. The police might stop a 'dodgy looking motor' because the car has got a brakelight out, and you may see it as a 'waste of time' or a 'minor crime' - whats to say thats not the car containing the gun that killed this boy. Im sure if these people are not bothered about killing people they're not going to be too worried about more minor breaches to law and order?
Also, when me and my mates were teenagers we still had to be accountable as to where we were going to our parents. Take a look around woolwich town centre and then tell me that the parents of the youngsters you see know where they are? Youll think this sounds stupid, but that is exactly the attitude that has got us where we are today.
** wrote:
the police in the area do nothing they would rather investigate to the max on the minor crimes as they dont want to get there hands dirty, its only going to get worse. I dread to think what it is going to be like when i eventually have kids, im 19 and i already have 4 friends dead! something needs to be done!
**, dont you see - these people commit minor crime too. The police might stop a 'dodgy looking motor' because the car has got a brakelight out, and you may see it as a 'waste of time' or a 'minor crime' - whats to say thats not the car containing the gun that killed this boy. Im sure if these people are not bothered about killing people they're not going to be too worried about more minor breaches to law and order?
Also, when me and my mates were teenagers we still had to be accountable as to where we were going to our parents. Take a look around woolwich town centre and then tell me that the parents of the youngsters you see know where they are? Youll think this sounds stupid, but that is exactly the attitude that has got us where we are today.
Posted by: anon, woolwich on 6:53pm Mon 15 Oct 07
The police should stop picking on innocent people when it comes to stop and searches.
They should concerntrate on the people carrying guns and knives, they know who these people are but are too scared to search them. They should be given more power and the people carrying the weapons should get 5 years straight away.
Woolwich and plumstead might be getting regenerated but it wont get rid of the scum.
The police should stop picking on innocent people when it comes to stop and searches.
They should concerntrate on the people carrying guns and knives, they know who these people are but are too scared to search them. They should be given more power and the people carrying the weapons should get 5 years straight away.
Woolwich and plumstead might be getting regenerated but it wont get rid of the scum.
Posted by: Mike, Woolwich on 7:07pm Mon 15 Oct 07
Anon, I cant imagine that the police being too scared is the case, at least, that is what I am told by someone I know who works for the police in Lewisham. I suggest the police are not mind readers and dont have crystal balls to work out who has a weapon and who doesnt. I guess the police do know who has had a weapon before, but if they ONLY go looking for those people they wont get the first timers and people who they havn't seen with a knife/gun before. The police need to go out there with an open mind and stop anyone who is known for crime and also anyone looking suspicious - white/black/yellow whatever race. If inncoent people get stopped then so beit - if I got stopped by the police i would feel reassured that the polce are doing something and are being proactive to sort this mess.
We need more police on our streets to find these people. That will help this problem - I heard the other day that police officers are being transferred into a poice call centres. How does that help this problem?
Anon, I cant imagine that the police being too scared is the case, at least, that is what I am told by someone I know who works for the police in Lewisham. I suggest the police are not mind readers and dont have crystal balls to work out who has a weapon and who doesnt. I guess the police do know who has had a weapon before, but if they ONLY go looking for those people they wont get the first timers and people who they havn't seen with a knife/gun before. The police need to go out there with an open mind and stop anyone who is known for crime and also anyone looking suspicious - white/black/yellow whatever race. If inncoent people get stopped then so beit - if I got stopped by the police i would feel reassured that the polce are doing something and are being proactive to sort this mess.
We need more police on our streets to find these people. That will help this problem - I heard the other day that police officers are being transferred into a poice call centres. How does that help this problem?
Posted by: to girls age 14 and 16, abbeywood on 7:44pm Mon 15 Oct 07
cant beleive its happend agen gang related people are killing eachother and they dont even care all they are worried about is there pried with there boys its not right its got to stop my heart goes out to them 2 boys and there family r.i.p to that one booy xx i just wish that people would come to there sences and stop gun and knife crime
cant beleive its happend agen gang related people are killing eachother and they dont even care all they are worried about is there pried with there boys its not right its got to stop my heart goes out to them 2 boys and there family r.i.p to that one booy xx i just wish that people would come to there sences and stop gun and knife crime
Posted by: Darren, Erith on 8:08pm Mon 15 Oct 07
The W.C.E WOOLWICH COMMON ESTATE ,is where this incident took place , I used to deliver local papers on Long Walk SE18. The police is the metropolitan police in this case and they are not any good with communicating with the general public in our metropolitan area. The most that may come of this is a few houses being raided in the woolwich common estate area. This is a black on black crime and I do not think the metropolitan police with the reputation the force has should deal with black on black crimes or race related crimes.
The W.C.E WOOLWICH COMMON ESTATE ,is where this incident took place , I used to deliver local papers on Long Walk SE18. The police is the metropolitan police in this case and they are not any good with communicating with the general public in our metropolitan area. The most that may come of this is a few houses being raided in the woolwich common estate area. This is a black on black crime and I do not think the metropolitan police with the reputation the force has should deal with black on black crimes or race related crimes.
Posted by: clarks on 8:28pm Mon 15 Oct 07
Darren, Erith - I don't quite follow your thinking...who, if not the Met, should investigate this? Or it just shouldn't be investigated? I think you're alluding to the Met having a reputation for being racist - I think that's rather unjust nowadays.
Darren, Erith - I don't quite follow your thinking...who, if not the Met, should investigate this? Or it just shouldn't be investigated? I think you're alluding to the Met having a reputation for being racist - I think that's rather unjust nowadays.
Posted by: Darren, Erith on 9:05pm Mon 15 Oct 07
The Metropolitan police is an Institutionalised racist police force , it has been investigated and given that title because of the Stephen Lawrence enquiry. I do not need to elude anyone about the racism within the metropolitan police force.
This crime has no choice but to be investigated by the Met police but if Kent police were to handle it for example , the public would have more faith in a conviction.
The Metropolitan police is an Institutionalised racist police force , it has been investigated and given that title because of the Stephen Lawrence enquiry. I do not need to elude anyone about the racism within the metropolitan police force.
This crime has no choice but to be investigated by the Met police but if Kent police were to handle it for example , the public would have more faith in a conviction.
Posted by: Ben, Belvedere on 9:17pm Mon 15 Oct 07
Considering things like this are a regular occurance in Greater London the MET Police in my opinion are more qualified and more likely to find the culprit than the Kent police who mainly deal in petty crime.
In this day and age do you really think the police would bring race into the matter in regards to dealing with the crime at hand? If they wasn't bothered about solving crimes involving the ethnic minority then they wouldn't have a dedicated section who deal with Black on black crime.
Considering things like this are a regular occurance in Greater London the MET Police in my opinion are more qualified and more likely to find the culprit than the Kent police who mainly deal in petty crime.
In this day and age do you really think the police would bring race into the matter in regards to dealing with the crime at hand? If they wasn't bothered about solving crimes involving the ethnic minority then they wouldn't have a dedicated section who deal with Black on black crime.
Posted by: anon, kale rd on 10:10pm Mon 15 Oct 07
Why do people have to use knives and guns all the time. there has been 53 peopel under the age of 20 to be murdered since the beging of the year
Why do people have to use knives and guns all the time. there has been 53 peopel under the age of 20 to be murdered since the beging of the year
Posted by: INFO, woolwich on 10:11pm Mon 15 Oct 07
[bold]bold[/bold] the person killed was not from the area and the killers are not local people or local gang. one more thing, the person killed has ...... before. RIP
the person killed was not from the area and the killers are not local people or local gang. one more thing, the person killed has ...... before. RIP
Posted by: Darren, Erith on 10:23pm Mon 15 Oct 07
Trident was formed upon instructions from the Independant Advisory commitee. Trident in my opinion says that gun crime is a black persons crime which in fact is not true , its a social problem. If you are a member of society , you could be affected.
Regular occurance is an understatement at this time and Trident are not doing much to stop gun crime or the causes of gun crime.
Trident is only 370 strong in manpower.
Hardly a force to be reckoned with...
Trident was formed upon instructions from the Independant Advisory commitee. Trident in my opinion says that gun crime is a black persons crime which in fact is not true , its a social problem. If you are a member of society , you could be affected.
Regular occurance is an understatement at this time and Trident are not doing much to stop gun crime or the causes of gun crime.
Trident is only 370 strong in manpower.
Hardly a force to be reckoned with...
Posted by: Anon, Woolwich on 11:06pm Mon 15 Oct 07
[quote][bold]INFO[/bold] wrote:
[bold]bold[/bold] the person killed was not from the area and the killers are not local people or local gang. one more thing, the person killed has ...... before. RIP[/quote] Any how do you know all this ? The mind boggles !
INFO wrote:
the person killed was not from the area and the killers are not local people or local gang. one more thing, the person killed has ...... before. RIP
Any how do you know all this ? The mind boggles !
Posted by: lorrie, Abbey wood on 11:20pm Mon 15 Oct 07
Ive got two sons that have been mugged by knife point. one last month in Godstow Road Abbey Wood and one today at the Abbey Ruins and both times its been black youths.
Ive got two sons that have been mugged by knife point. one last month in Godstow Road Abbey Wood and one today at the Abbey Ruins and both times its been black youths.
Posted by: carrie, bromley on 11:25pm Mon 15 Oct 07
lorrie...have you reported these crimes to the police and got crime numbers for each attack?
lorrie...have you reported these crimes to the police and got crime numbers for each attack?
Posted by: Ben, Belvedere on 11:31pm Mon 15 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Anon[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]INFO[/bold] wrote:
[bold]bold[/bold] the person killed was not from the area and the killers are not local people or local gang. one more thing, the person killed has ...... before. RIP[/quote] Any how do you know all this ? The mind boggles ![/quote] It was quoted on London Tonight that the crime has something to do with gangs from Thamesmead (T-Block) and Charlton (Cherry Orchard) having fueds with a gang from Woolwich (Woolwich boys). Whether or not this is the truth is another matter.
Anon wrote:
INFO wrote:
the person killed was not from the area and the killers are not local people or local gang. one more thing, the person killed has ...... before. RIP
Any how do you know all this ? The mind boggles !
It was quoted on London Tonight that the crime has something to do with gangs from Thamesmead (T-Block) and Charlton (Cherry Orchard) having fueds with a gang from Woolwich (Woolwich boys). Whether or not this is the truth is another matter.
Posted by: Ben, Belvedere on 11:34pm Mon 15 Oct 07
BTW it didn't quote the gang names on London tonight it's just common knowledge that these are the gangs in question.
BTW it didn't quote the gang names on London tonight it's just common knowledge that these are the gangs in question.
Posted by: Darren, Erith on 11:36pm Mon 15 Oct 07
[quote][bold]lorrie, Abbey wood[/bold] wrote:
Ive got two sons that have been mugged by knife point. one last month in Godstow Road Abbey Wood and one today at the Abbey Ruins and both times its been black youths. [/quote] And your point is what Lorrie ? Your sons say to you that they got mugged by two black guys. I hope they told the police and its being investigated.
A lot of blame is put upon black youths innocent or not, its known in Abbey Wood , Belvedere , Erith , Slade Green to blame black people for their crimes.
lorrie, Abbey wood wrote:
Ive got two sons that have been mugged by knife point. one last month in Godstow Road Abbey Wood and one today at the Abbey Ruins and both times its been black youths.
And your point is what Lorrie ? Your sons say to you that they got mugged by two black guys. I hope they told the police and its being investigated.
A lot of blame is put upon black youths innocent or not, its known in Abbey Wood , Belvedere , Erith , Slade Green to blame black people for their crimes.
Posted by: carrie, bromley on 11:39pm Mon 15 Oct 07
ben.a resident said there had been trouble in the past from thamesmead charlton and woolwich but they didn't say they had anything to do with this.
ben.a resident said there had been trouble in the past from thamesmead charlton and woolwich but they didn't say they had anything to do with this.
Posted by: Darren, Erith on 11:54pm Mon 15 Oct 07
Lets start addressing this issue and open it up. What if we stop looking to blame and concentrate on stopping violent crime. A weapons amnesty should be launched at all metropolitan police stations and other police forces can join in. Hand in all your weapons and no questions asked, no criminal record or even a caution. Thats just a start....Theres a saying , "the devil makes use of idle hands" If you like guns you can be kept busy learning about weapons in the armed forces as well as earn a salary. I do feel that for Britain as a society and England as a country this problem can be solved and by doing so we can show the rest of the world how to start combating gun crime.
Lets start addressing this issue and open it up. What if we stop looking to blame and concentrate on stopping violent crime. A weapons amnesty should be launched at all metropolitan police stations and other police forces can join in. Hand in all your weapons and no questions asked, no criminal record or even a caution. Thats just a start....Theres a saying , "the devil makes use of idle hands" If you like guns you can be kept busy learning about weapons in the armed forces as well as earn a salary. I do feel that for Britain as a society and England as a country this problem can be solved and by doing so we can show the rest of the world how to start combating gun crime.
Posted by: Ben, Belvedere on 12:28am Tue 16 Oct 07
[quote][bold]carrie[/bold] wrote:
ben.a resident said there had been trouble in the past from thamesmead charlton and woolwich but they didn't say they had anything to do with this.[/quote] I think your right, but it's almost definately gang related - I mean people usually have these guns to protect themselves against other gangs or dispose of rival members in what can almost be called assisination in cases like this. There is alot of gang activity in Woolwich so it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it had something to do with any of the known gangs.
carrie wrote:
ben.a resident said there had been trouble in the past from thamesmead charlton and woolwich but they didn't say they had anything to do with this.
I think your right, but it's almost definately gang related - I mean people usually have these guns to protect themselves against other gangs or dispose of rival members in what can almost be called assisination in cases like this. There is alot of gang activity in Woolwich so it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it had something to do with any of the known gangs.
Posted by: carrie, 664-332 on 12:50am Tue 16 Oct 07
ben..most people dont carry a gun around so youre probably right but they said on itv that the victim is not from the local area.
ben..most people dont carry a gun around so youre probably right but they said on itv that the victim is not from the local area.
Posted by: ANON, ANON on 12:51am Tue 16 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Des[/bold] wrote:
Worrying thing is The stabbing in Ampleforth Rd last week never made the headlines, strangly and the shooting in Kale Rd Thamesmead last Thursday did not make it on here[/quote] WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT THE ONE AT KALE ROAD IS ON HERE WITH 3 DIFFERENT STORIES AND IT AS BEEN ALL OVER THE NEWS ALL WEEKEND
Des wrote:
Worrying thing is The stabbing in Ampleforth Rd last week never made the headlines, strangly and the shooting in Kale Rd Thamesmead last Thursday did not make it on here
WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT THE ONE AT KALE ROAD IS ON HERE WITH 3 DIFFERENT STORIES AND IT AS BEEN ALL OVER THE NEWS ALL WEEKEND
Posted by: Darren, Erith on 3:29am Tue 16 Oct 07
So what are two black geezers , doesnt matter where they are from, doing sitting in a ford fiesta in the middle of woolwich common estate? .
So what are two black geezers , doesnt matter where they are from, doing sitting in a ford fiesta in the middle of woolwich common estate? .
Posted by: Andy, Kent on 7:23am Tue 16 Oct 07
It is pretty obvious that this is either gang or drug related, people dont just shoot people for no reason why there are sitting in thier car!! I know this country is ridden with knife and gun crime, govenment are just not getting to grips with the problem, they talk good, but no actions to deal with it... I make a prediection that within the next month at least 2 more people will be murdered in south london / Kent!! Its that predicable now, lets hope it isnt somebody we care about!!
It is pretty obvious that this is either gang or drug related, people dont just shoot people for no reason why there are sitting in thier car!! I know this country is ridden with knife and gun crime, govenment are just not getting to grips with the problem, they talk good, but no actions to deal with it... I make a prediection that within the next month at least 2 more people will be murdered in south london / Kent!! Its that predicable now, lets hope it isnt somebody we care about!!
Posted by: Shereen, West Thamesmead on 7:55am Tue 16 Oct 07
[quote][bold]anon[/bold] wrote:
The police should stop picking on innocent people when it comes to stop and searches. They should concerntrate on the people carrying guns and knives, they know who these people are but are too scared to search them. They should be given more power and the people carrying the weapons should get 5 years straight away. Woolwich and plumstead might be getting regenerated but it wont get rid of the scum.[/quote] I'm not involved in crime, nor ever have been - and would not object to being stop and searched. How are the police supposed to identify if you are innocent before requesting to stop and search - get you to fill in a form??
The whole area has more than it's fair share of vile individuals involved in dodgy, criminal activities. It needs zero tolerance to clean it up, that is the only way. But with the woolly liberals making excuses for the criminals - there's no chance so if you live in London you have to get used to it unless you vote differently at the next election!
anon wrote:
The police should stop picking on innocent people when it comes to stop and searches. They should concerntrate on the people carrying guns and knives, they know who these people are but are too scared to search them. They should be given more power and the people carrying the weapons should get 5 years straight away. Woolwich and plumstead might be getting regenerated but it wont get rid of the scum.
I'm not involved in crime, nor ever have been - and would not object to being stop and searched. How are the police supposed to identify if you are innocent before requesting to stop and search - get you to fill in a form??
The whole area has more than it's fair share of vile individuals involved in dodgy, criminal activities. It needs zero tolerance to clean it up, that is the only way. But with the woolly liberals making excuses for the criminals - there's no chance so if you live in London you have to get used to it unless you vote differently at the next election!
Posted by: Julie, West Thamesmead on 8:06am Tue 16 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Darren[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]lorrie, Abbey wood[/bold] wrote: Ive got two sons that have been mugged by knife point. one last month in Godstow Road Abbey Wood and one today at the Abbey Ruins and both times its been black youths. [/quote] And your point is what Lorrie ? Your sons say to you that they got mugged by two black guys. I hope they told the police and its being investigated. A lot of blame is put upon black youths innocent or not, its known in Abbey Wood , Belvedere , Erith , Slade Green to blame black people for their crimes.[/quote] Lets not make this a situation where people are scared to identify the person/s race when describing criminals - the Press often use the terms white, Irish, Scottish, Welsh and that is not questioned.
Stats show that muggings have been disproportionately committed by particular groups in the past - and still possibly are. But it is quite common from the stats that certain cultures/communities criminal fraternities tend to be more active in specific crimes no matter what colour, class or race. Like it or not -the current levels of gun crime happening in London are MOSTLY (not 100% but a disproportionate percentage) linked to black on black crime and gangs.
Lorrie: my sympathy to you for your sons being mugged - it is a terrible experience for them to go through - and that should be acknowledged.
Darren wrote:
lorrie, Abbey wood wrote: Ive got two sons that have been mugged by knife point. one last month in Godstow Road Abbey Wood and one today at the Abbey Ruins and both times its been black youths.
And your point is what Lorrie ? Your sons say to you that they got mugged by two black guys. I hope they told the police and its being investigated. A lot of blame is put upon black youths innocent or not, its known in Abbey Wood , Belvedere , Erith , Slade Green to blame black people for their crimes.
Lets not make this a situation where people are scared to identify the person/s race when describing criminals - the Press often use the terms white, Irish, Scottish, Welsh and that is not questioned.
Stats show that muggings have been disproportionately committed by particular groups in the past - and still possibly are. But it is quite common from the stats that certain cultures/communities criminal fraternities tend to be more active in specific crimes no matter what colour, class or race. Like it or not -the current levels of gun crime happening in London are MOSTLY (not 100% but a disproportionate percentage) linked to black on black crime and gangs.
Lorrie: my sympathy to you for your sons being mugged - it is a terrible experience for them to go through - and that should be acknowledged.
Posted by: Me, Here on 8:47am Tue 16 Oct 07
Darren,
Are you black?
Posted by: Anon, uk on 8:48am Tue 16 Oct 07
Only cowards carry guns and join gangs because there too scared to start trouble alone, Gangs are like a herd of sheep, The game follow my leader springs to mind. Im glad i left that all behind at nursery school lol
Only cowards carry guns and join gangs because there too scared to start trouble alone, Gangs are like a herd of sheep, The game follow my leader springs to mind. Im glad i left that all behind at nursery school lol
Posted by: ANON, plumstead on 9:09am Tue 16 Oct 07
Excuse me for being stupid, but its not down to the police how long these scum get, but down to the judges & inparticluar, down to the forever growing with our respects Mr G brown!! I wonder what he would do if it was someone close to him that was murdered.......
Excuse me for being stupid, but its not down to the police how long these scum get, but down to the judges & inparticluar, down to the forever growing with our respects Mr G brown!! I wonder what he would do if it was someone close to him that was murdered.......
Posted by: Des, SE on 9:43am Tue 16 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Simon Bull, web editor[/bold] wrote:
Des, Was the Kale Rd incident a stabbing rather than a shooting? If so we've reported on that one quite extensively over the past few days. The other incident you mentioned isn't immediately familiar to me but then if it was a serious stabbing and was one we were told about by the police then I'm sure we would have done something. If you can give me a few more details on that one, I can look into it.[/quote] It happened last Weds 10th late night or Thurs 11th early hours
From what i have heard 2 black youths stabbed a gent.
I think but cant confirm someone either that night or a few nights before was either stabbed or someone attempted to stab them when they left the Birchwood pub also corner of Ampleforth
Simon Bull, web editor wrote:
Des, Was the Kale Rd incident a stabbing rather than a shooting? If so we've reported on that one quite extensively over the past few days. The other incident you mentioned isn't immediately familiar to me but then if it was a serious stabbing and was one we were told about by the police then I'm sure we would have done something. If you can give me a few more details on that one, I can look into it.
It happened last Weds 10th late night or Thurs 11th early hours
From what i have heard 2 black youths stabbed a gent.
I think but cant confirm someone either that night or a few nights before was either stabbed or someone attempted to stab them when they left the Birchwood pub also corner of Ampleforth
Posted by: Reader, Bexley on 9:56am Tue 16 Oct 07
[quote][bold]INFO[/bold] wrote:
[bold]bold[/bold] the person killed was not from the area and the killers are not local people or local gang. one more thing, the person killed has ...... before. RIP[/quote] If this information is right why does the person who wrote this contact the police ???????????
INFO wrote:
the person killed was not from the area and the killers are not local people or local gang. one more thing, the person killed has ...... before. RIP
If this information is right why does the person who wrote this contact the police ???????????
Posted by: TES, ERITH on 10:45am Tue 16 Oct 07
UP UNTIL DECEMBER LAST YEAR I LIVED ON THAT S**T HOLE ESTATE! IM SO GLAD I GOT MY FAMILY AWAY FROM THERE, MY ELDEST SON IS 14 AND WOULD GET A GOOD OLD FASHIONED HIDING IF I GOT A WHIFF THAT HE HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH GANGS. IVE SAID IT BEFORE ON HERE SEND THE SCUM TO BOOT CAMP OR ARMY.
MY THOUGHTS ARE WITH YOUNG LADS FAMILY GANG RELATED OR NOT HE WAS 18 FFS.
UP UNTIL DECEMBER LAST YEAR I LIVED ON THAT S**T HOLE ESTATE! IM SO GLAD I GOT MY FAMILY AWAY FROM THERE, MY ELDEST SON IS 14 AND WOULD GET A GOOD OLD FASHIONED HIDING IF I GOT A WHIFF THAT HE HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH GANGS. IVE SAID IT BEFORE ON HERE SEND THE SCUM TO BOOT CAMP OR ARMY.
MY THOUGHTS ARE WITH YOUNG LADS FAMILY GANG RELATED OR NOT HE WAS 18 FFS.
Posted by: anon, anon on 10:51am Tue 16 Oct 07
[quote][bold]anon[/bold] wrote:
The police should stop picking on innocent people when it comes to stop and searches. They should concerntrate on the people carrying guns and knives, they know who these people are but are too scared to search them. They should be given more power and the people carrying the weapons should get 5 years straight away. Woolwich and plumstead might be getting regenerated but it wont get rid of the scum.[/quote] the gangs rule the bouroughs not the police the police are scared off them this will only get worse the police need to do more
anon wrote:
The police should stop picking on innocent people when it comes to stop and searches. They should concerntrate on the people carrying guns and knives, they know who these people are but are too scared to search them. They should be given more power and the people carrying the weapons should get 5 years straight away. Woolwich and plumstead might be getting regenerated but it wont get rid of the scum.
the gangs rule the bouroughs not the police the police are scared off them this will only get worse the police need to do more
Posted by: Mike, Woolwich on 11:13am Tue 16 Oct 07
Darren, I think you need to desperately get off the racial bandwagon before someone gets hurt. I think the point with this incident is that it was, according to what I have read from various sources a black on black crime. Black on black crime happens as does any other type of crime. It just tends to be more violent and have more severe consiquences. If that wasn't the case do you think the Met would set up the whole trident thing? I've every confidence that the met wouldnt waste the hundreds and thousands of pounds that must fund the scheme just to be institutionally racist. Darren, the point is Steven Lawrence was a long time ago now. Lessons have been learn't and society is changing. What makes you think that the people of Kent (a less ethnically diverse populus) are going to be any less 'institutionally racist' than the Met. If anything, they could be more. Lets let the race card lie and just concentrate on finding out who did this and making it more difficult for the criminals to operate. If this is another black on black gang incident, lets support the police in targeting these gangs and giving them any info we might have.
Darren, I think you need to desperately get off the racial bandwagon before someone gets hurt. I think the point with this incident is that it was, according to what I have read from various sources a black on black crime. Black on black crime happens as does any other type of crime. It just tends to be more violent and have more severe consiquences. If that wasn't the case do you think the Met would set up the whole trident thing? I've every confidence that the met wouldnt waste the hundreds and thousands of pounds that must fund the scheme just to be institutionally racist. Darren, the point is Steven Lawrence was a long time ago now. Lessons have been learn't and society is changing. What makes you think that the people of Kent (a less ethnically diverse populus) are going to be any less 'institutionally racist' than the Met. If anything, they could be more. Lets let the race card lie and just concentrate on finding out who did this and making it more difficult for the criminals to operate. If this is another black on black gang incident, lets support the police in targeting these gangs and giving them any info we might have.
Posted by: anon, woolwich on 11:32am Tue 16 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Mike[/bold] wrote:
Darren, I think you need to desperately get off the racial bandwagon before someone gets hurt. I think the point with this incident is that it was, according to what I have read from various sources a black on black crime. Black on black crime happens as does any other type of crime. It just tends to be more violent and have more severe consiquences. If that wasn\'t the case do you think the Met would set up the whole trident thing? I\'ve every confidence that the met wouldnt waste the hundreds and thousands of pounds that must fund the scheme just to be institutionally racist. Darren, the point is Steven Lawrence was a long time ago now. Lessons have been learn\'t and society is changing. What makes you think that the people of Kent (a less ethnically diverse populus) are going to be any less \'institutionally racist\' than the Met. If anything, they could be more. Lets let the race card lie and just concentrate on finding out who did this and making it more difficult for the criminals to operate. If this is another black on black gang incident, lets support the police in targeting these gangs and giving them any info we might have.[/quote] wot is the point of helping the police they are SCARED off the gangs
Mike wrote:
Darren, I think you need to desperately get off the racial bandwagon before someone gets hurt. I think the point with this incident is that it was, according to what I have read from various sources a black on black crime. Black on black crime happens as does any other type of crime. It just tends to be more violent and have more severe consiquences. If that wasn\'t the case do you think the Met would set up the whole trident thing? I\'ve every confidence that the met wouldnt waste the hundreds and thousands of pounds that must fund the scheme just to be institutionally racist. Darren, the point is Steven Lawrence was a long time ago now. Lessons have been learn\'t and society is changing. What makes you think that the people of Kent (a less ethnically diverse populus) are going to be any less \'institutionally racist\' than the Met. If anything, they could be more. Lets let the race card lie and just concentrate on finding out who did this and making it more difficult for the criminals to operate. If this is another black on black gang incident, lets support the police in targeting these gangs and giving them any info we might have.
wot is the point of helping the police they are SCARED off the gangs
Posted by: Adam, Eltham on 11:41am Tue 16 Oct 07
Time to get out of South East London.....see ya!!!
Time to get out of South East London.....see ya!!!
Posted by: H, Thamesmead on 11:58am Tue 16 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Des[/bold] wrote:
Worrying thing is The stabbing in Ampleforth Rd last week never made the headlines, strangly and the shooting in Kale Rd Thamesmead last Thursday did not make it on here[/quote] Yeah, the murder last Thursday did make it on here amongst the many others that have.
Des wrote:
Worrying thing is The stabbing in Ampleforth Rd last week never made the headlines, strangly and the shooting in Kale Rd Thamesmead last Thursday did not make it on here
Yeah, the murder last Thursday did make it on here amongst the many others that have.
Posted by: anon, LONDON on 12:04pm Tue 16 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Ben[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Me[/bold] wrote: Dear Mr G.Brown, it\'s good to see that you have your priorites right. Tax everyone up to the eyelids and turn a blind eye to all the innocent people that are being knifed and shot at the moment. Thanks very much. A citizen of crime ridden London.[/quote] I don\'t think some of these people being murdered are exactly \'innocent\'. They obviously have mixed with people they shouldn\'t have to get themselves in the situation where they\'re being murdered. The one in Thamesmead and the Woman in New Cross where innocent victims, but these teenagers being murdered are most likely involved in Drugs and other dodgy dealings.[/quote] Sorry Ben,
Please dont assume things. Philip was from peckham not the area, he was trying to make it off a bad estate and was actually at uni. U trying being brought up in an area where u can walk next door and buy drugs any type, and then have the chance to make a quick buck, while the local gov hardly help the black youth make it out of the gutter to uni and HE MADE IT! so please dnt chat crap u kno ****. For all u kno, he could of been linking a girl. so shutup please.
Ben wrote:
Me wrote: Dear Mr G.Brown, it\'s good to see that you have your priorites right. Tax everyone up to the eyelids and turn a blind eye to all the innocent people that are being knifed and shot at the moment. Thanks very much. A citizen of crime ridden London.
I don\'t think some of these people being murdered are exactly \'innocent\'. They obviously have mixed with people they shouldn\'t have to get themselves in the situation where they\'re being murdered. The one in Thamesmead and the Woman in New Cross where innocent victims, but these teenagers being murdered are most likely involved in Drugs and other dodgy dealings.
Sorry Ben,
Please dont assume things. Philip was from peckham not the area, he was trying to make it off a bad estate and was actually at uni. U trying being brought up in an area where u can walk next door and buy drugs any type, and then have the chance to make a quick buck, while the local gov hardly help the black youth make it out of the gutter to uni and HE MADE IT! so please dnt chat crap u kno ****. For all u kno, he could of been linking a girl. so shutup please.
Posted by: Ben, Belvedere on 12:36pm Tue 16 Oct 07
Excuse me but people don't get shot for nothing while sitting in their car - why were these 2 youths sitting in their car on a dodgy estate? Linking a girl you say? Well we'll find out after the police have taken statements and release more details yeah?
The assumption was made on legible grounds considering most people who are shot or are shooting themselves are related to gangs, and usually these incidents happen in areas where gangs are present such as this incident.
If you knew this boy like your message implies, then I'm sorry for you that he's been murdered. At 18 it's not what anyone wants somebody so young to go through. But you have to remember this is a 'comment' section on peoples opinions on this shooting, people are interested in what actually happened.
As for somebody going Uni it doesn't automatically make them innocent, some intelligent people still get caught up in things they shouldn't.
As for being brough up in an area where people sell drugs etc... I was... maybe not on my direct doorstep but not too far away. Luckily I moved away before I got drawn into anything major, and I know some people don't have that option.
I wasn't talking crap, I was making an opinionated assumption from what I've read, seen and heard on the local streets I've been brought up on.
If I offended you then sorry.
Excuse me but people don't get shot for nothing while sitting in their car - why were these 2 youths sitting in their car on a dodgy estate? Linking a girl you say? Well we'll find out after the police have taken statements and release more details yeah?
The assumption was made on legible grounds considering most people who are shot or are shooting themselves are related to gangs, and usually these incidents happen in areas where gangs are present such as this incident.
If you knew this boy like your message implies, then I'm sorry for you that he's been murdered. At 18 it's not what anyone wants somebody so young to go through. But you have to remember this is a 'comment' section on peoples opinions on this shooting, people are interested in what actually happened.
As for somebody going Uni it doesn't automatically make them innocent, some intelligent people still get caught up in things they shouldn't.
As for being brough up in an area where people sell drugs etc... I was... maybe not on my direct doorstep but not too far away. Luckily I moved away before I got drawn into anything major, and I know some people don't have that option.
I wasn't talking crap, I was making an opinionated assumption from what I've read, seen and heard on the local streets I've been brought up on.
If I offended you then sorry.
Posted by: Stuart, Bexleyheath on 1:09pm Tue 16 Oct 07
Darren, what is your obsession with blaming the police? I remember white boys being killed by black gangs and the crimes never being solved as well. The only people at fault for these and all crimes are the people that commit them. Until people stop taking responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming an easy target such as the feds or the government there will always be problems. I myself grew up on an estate in Thamesmead. Drugs were readily available, but I chose not to take them, and to make a success of myself, which I have done. In my mid-twenties, I own my second house, which I have been able to do by grafting. It has nothing to do with my colour, and everything to do with not being a lazy idiot.
An amnesty is a ridiculous idea, people should not have these tools in the first place. Why would you go out with a knife or a gun if you was not going to use it. One way to stop this would be to have a clear policy, caught with a knife or gun, 25 years in prison. Caught using them, then life imprisoment, with life meaning life.
Sir Paul Condon got hammered for saying that most robberies etc are committed by young black males. All he did was tell the truth. Now, the community are asking why more is not being done to stop and search their kids? Amazing, the answer is because when they do get searched they play the race card. four black youths of about 16 tried to rob two 11 year old white kids in lodge hill park on Saturday. I wonder if that will be treated as racist? Of course it will not.
I'm sick of everyone mollycoddling these toerags. Take responsibility and make something of your lives. No-one has a god given right to have everything handed to them on a plate - you have to work for it.
It is terrible that so many youngsters are leaving us at such an early age, and my hearts go out to the families. Let’s not just assume that because someone was a student that they were innocent.
Darren, what is your obsession with blaming the police? I remember white boys being killed by black gangs and the crimes never being solved as well. The only people at fault for these and all crimes are the people that commit them. Until people stop taking responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming an easy target such as the feds or the government there will always be problems. I myself grew up on an estate in Thamesmead. Drugs were readily available, but I chose not to take them, and to make a success of myself, which I have done. In my mid-twenties, I own my second house, which I have been able to do by grafting. It has nothing to do with my colour, and everything to do with not being a lazy idiot.
An amnesty is a ridiculous idea, people should not have these tools in the first place. Why would you go out with a knife or a gun if you was not going to use it. One way to stop this would be to have a clear policy, caught with a knife or gun, 25 years in prison. Caught using them, then life imprisoment, with life meaning life.
Sir Paul Condon got hammered for saying that most robberies etc are committed by young black males. All he did was tell the truth. Now, the community are asking why more is not being done to stop and search their kids? Amazing, the answer is because when they do get searched they play the race card. four black youths of about 16 tried to rob two 11 year old white kids in lodge hill park on Saturday. I wonder if that will be treated as racist? Of course it will not.
I'm sick of everyone mollycoddling these toerags. Take responsibility and make something of your lives. No-one has a god given right to have everything handed to them on a plate - you have to work for it.
It is terrible that so many youngsters are leaving us at such an early age, and my hearts go out to the families. Let’s not just assume that because someone was a student that they were innocent.
Posted by: Harvey on 1:33pm Tue 16 Oct 07
I'm also sick of people making excuses for crimes and using every possible easy target to blame for any trouble, rather than the people involved themselves.
I'm tired of people saying that just because kids come from a poor or supposedly deprived background, there is some sort of justification for them getting involved in crime. It's utter rubbish.
Getting involved in crime is a sign of weakness and stupidity, and has nothing whatsoever to do with race or where a person grew up.
So what if places like Peckham, Lewisham or Thamesmead are a bit rough, it does not automatically follow that kids will end up on drugs or leading a life of crime as a wannabe gangster. It is about upbringing, knowing right from wrong and most of all it is about making the right personal choices.
There can be no excuses or no-one / nothing to blame for being involved in gangs and crime other than suffering from a lack of brain cells or not having the backbone to stay away from trouble.
I'm also sick of people making excuses for crimes and using every possible easy target to blame for any trouble, rather than the people involved themselves.
I'm tired of people saying that just because kids come from a poor or supposedly deprived background, there is some sort of justification for them getting involved in crime. It's utter rubbish.
Getting involved in crime is a sign of weakness and stupidity, and has nothing whatsoever to do with race or where a person grew up.
So what if places like Peckham, Lewisham or Thamesmead are a bit rough, it does not automatically follow that kids will end up on drugs or leading a life of crime as a wannabe gangster. It is about upbringing, knowing right from wrong and most of all it is about making the right personal choices.
There can be no excuses or no-one / nothing to blame for being involved in gangs and crime other than suffering from a lack of brain cells or not having the backbone to stay away from trouble.
Posted by: Tasha, welling on 1:36pm Tue 16 Oct 07
This place is becoming more disgraceful by the day, and i am starting to become embarressed to say that i am from england. I grew up in abbeywood, a town that many people loved to live in. now it is the complete opposite and that is why me and my family moved out. i cannot believe how much the area has changed in recent years!
Am i the only one who thinks that there may be a connection between the rise in immigration and the rise in crime? i am not saying that this is the reason but many members of these so called 'gangs' originate, or their family originate from more violent countries. could it be that they are bringing this violence with them as this is the type of environment that they know? It seems that youths pick up on this behaviour and start to follow it as they think it will earn them respect. as i say, i am not implying that this is the cause so i don't want people to twist my words and make out that i am being racist because that is not what i am saying at all. I just can't help but think there may be a connection and the government needs to do something about it so we can all live in a town that we are not scared to walk around in!!!
This place is becoming more disgraceful by the day, and i am starting to become embarressed to say that i am from england. I grew up in abbeywood, a town that many people loved to live in. now it is the complete opposite and that is why me and my family moved out. i cannot believe how much the area has changed in recent years!
Am i the only one who thinks that there may be a connection between the rise in immigration and the rise in crime? i am not saying that this is the reason but many members of these so called 'gangs' originate, or their family originate from more violent countries. could it be that they are bringing this violence with them as this is the type of environment that they know? It seems that youths pick up on this behaviour and start to follow it as they think it will earn them respect. as i say, i am not implying that this is the cause so i don't want people to twist my words and make out that i am being racist because that is not what i am saying at all. I just can't help but think there may be a connection and the government needs to do something about it so we can all live in a town that we are not scared to walk around in!!!
Posted by: Princess, London on 1:53pm Tue 16 Oct 07
This boy was my neighbour...it broke my heart to hear the news yesterday!! He was an intelligent, handsome young man with his whole life ahead of him...I mean he just started uni and was doing well for himself. This has to stop!! When will people wise up and stop all this crap?? May his soul rest in perfect peace
This boy was my neighbour...it broke my heart to hear the news yesterday!! He was an intelligent, handsome young man with his whole life ahead of him...I mean he just started uni and was doing well for himself. This has to stop!! When will people wise up and stop all this crap?? May his soul rest in perfect peace
Posted by: Harry, SE2 on 2:10pm Tue 16 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Tasha[/bold] wrote:
This place is becoming more disgraceful by the day, and i am starting to become embarressed to say that i am from england. I grew up in abbeywood, a town that many people loved to live in. now it is the complete opposite and that is why me and my family moved out. i cannot believe how much the area has changed in recent years!
Am i the only one who thinks that there may be a connection between the rise in immigration and the rise in crime? i am not saying that this is the reason but many members of these so called 'gangs' originate, or their family originate from more violent countries. could it be that they are bringing this violence with them as this is the type of environment that they know? It seems that youths pick up on this behaviour and start to follow it as they think it will earn them respect. as i say, i am not implying that this is the cause so i don't want people to twist my words and make out that i am being racist because that is not what i am saying at all. I just can't help but think there may be a connection and the government needs to do something about it so we can all live in a town that we are not scared to walk around in!!![/quote] You hit the nail on the head.
It's no coincidence that the influx of immigrants has had an impact on crime in cities like London, especially gang related.
Alot of people from countries like 'Somalia' see violence day in day out over there, then they think it's acceptable to bring it into what was a fairly civilised country like England.
By all means this is not an attack on people not born here, but some of the people allowed over have no morals and no respect for our own culture and think it's acceptable to run riot on our streets.
Tasha wrote:
This place is becoming more disgraceful by the day, and i am starting to become embarressed to say that i am from england. I grew up in abbeywood, a town that many people loved to live in. now it is the complete opposite and that is why me and my family moved out. i cannot believe how much the area has changed in recent years!
Am i the only one who thinks that there may be a connection between the rise in immigration and the rise in crime? i am not saying that this is the reason but many members of these so called 'gangs' originate, or their family originate from more violent countries. could it be that they are bringing this violence with them as this is the type of environment that they know? It seems that youths pick up on this behaviour and start to follow it as they think it will earn them respect. as i say, i am not implying that this is the cause so i don't want people to twist my words and make out that i am being racist because that is not what i am saying at all. I just can't help but think there may be a connection and the government needs to do something about it so we can all live in a town that we are not scared to walk around in!!!
You hit the nail on the head.
It's no coincidence that the influx of immigrants has had an impact on crime in cities like London, especially gang related.
Alot of people from countries like 'Somalia' see violence day in day out over there, then they think it's acceptable to bring it into what was a fairly civilised country like England.
By all means this is not an attack on people not born here, but some of the people allowed over have no morals and no respect for our own culture and think it's acceptable to run riot on our streets.
Posted by: oldguy, Wisconsin USA on 2:20pm Tue 16 Oct 07
I feel sorry for your having been led down the primrose path by your politicians. Maybe it's time YOU take your country back from the criminals no matter who they may be.
I feel sorry for your having been led down the primrose path by your politicians. Maybe it's time YOU take your country back from the criminals no matter who they may be.
Posted by: Harvey on 2:23pm Tue 16 Oct 07
I don't buy into the immigration equals crime argument for one second. It's just a lame excuse for people to make thinly veiled racist remarks along the lines of all people from Somalia must be violent criminals.
The problem these days is the breakdown of our society which generally has nothing to do with immigration but much more to do with a lack of proper authority for kids.
Too many kids these days seem to put 'respect' ahead of their (and other people's) lives. Too many kids associate 'respect' with violence. They would rather be dead and respected than alive and with no so-called cred. The really sick thing is their definition of what 'respect' is, is so wide of the mark that they don't know the meaning of the word.
I don't buy into the immigration equals crime argument for one second. It's just a lame excuse for people to make thinly veiled racist remarks along the lines of all people from Somalia must be violent criminals.
The problem these days is the breakdown of our society which generally has nothing to do with immigration but much more to do with a lack of proper authority for kids.
Too many kids these days seem to put 'respect' ahead of their (and other people's) lives. Too many kids associate 'respect' with violence. They would rather be dead and respected than alive and with no so-called cred. The really sick thing is their definition of what 'respect' is, is so wide of the mark that they don't know the meaning of the word.
Posted by: Anon, London on 2:32pm Tue 16 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Harvey[/bold] wrote:
I\'m also sick of people making excuses for crimes and using every possible easy target to blame for any trouble, rather than the people involved themselves. I\'m tired of people saying that just because kids come from a poor or supposedly deprived background, there is some sort of justification for them getting involved in crime. It\'s utter rubbish. Getting involved in crime is a sign of weakness and stupidity, and has nothing whatsoever to do with race or where a person grew up. So what if places like Peckham, Lewisham or Thamesmead are a bit rough, it does not automatically follow that kids will end up on drugs or leading a life of crime as a wannabe gangster. It is about upbringing, knowing right from wrong and most of all it is about making the right personal choices. There can be no excuses or no-one / nothing to blame for being involved in gangs and crime other than suffering from a lack of brain cells or not having the backbone to stay away from trouble.[/quote] This comment made me laugh, why? Because ive seen personally parents struglle thorugh 2 keep their kids on the right path, encourage them to do the right thing. But to no avial, why becasue of the peer groups and enviornment, if you put a person in a jungle they will adapt with that enviornement to survive! By the government allowing this circle of deprevation to contiune, by allowing guns on our street its going to contiune. Do u remeber the days when people would beat eachother up, with FISTS? I do. Its changed in the space of 3-4years. how? Did the government just manage to miss the one arsenal shipment into the country?? NO PEOPLE. Lets think about it, guns didnt just appear out of no where.
Comments like just cos ur from peckham etc....doesnt mean u should be a wannabe gangsta is crap. There not wannabe gangstats it what they see and breathe everyday. It's easy to say i packed up and moved. how did u do that!!?!? U HAD MONEY, WE DONT! Silly people, saying silly things.
Harvey wrote:
I\'m also sick of people making excuses for crimes and using every possible easy target to blame for any trouble, rather than the people involved themselves. I\'m tired of people saying that just because kids come from a poor or supposedly deprived background, there is some sort of justification for them getting involved in crime. It\'s utter rubbish. Getting involved in crime is a sign of weakness and stupidity, and has nothing whatsoever to do with race or where a person grew up. So what if places like Peckham, Lewisham or Thamesmead are a bit rough, it does not automatically follow that kids will end up on drugs or leading a life of crime as a wannabe gangster. It is about upbringing, knowing right from wrong and most of all it is about making the right personal choices. There can be no excuses or no-one / nothing to blame for being involved in gangs and crime other than suffering from a lack of brain cells or not having the backbone to stay away from trouble.
This comment made me laugh, why? Because ive seen personally parents struglle thorugh 2 keep their kids on the right path, encourage them to do the right thing. But to no avial, why becasue of the peer groups and enviornment, if you put a person in a jungle they will adapt with that enviornement to survive! By the government allowing this circle of deprevation to contiune, by allowing guns on our street its going to contiune. Do u remeber the days when people would beat eachother up, with FISTS? I do. Its changed in the space of 3-4years. how? Did the government just manage to miss the one arsenal shipment into the country?? NO PEOPLE. Lets think about it, guns didnt just appear out of no where.
Comments like just cos ur from peckham etc....doesnt mean u should be a wannabe gangsta is crap. There not wannabe gangstats it what they see and breathe everyday. It's easy to say i packed up and moved. how did u do that!!?!? U HAD MONEY, WE DONT! Silly people, saying silly things.
Posted by: Darren, Erith on 2:43pm Tue 16 Oct 07
Immigration since the early 90s from Africa to Eastern Europe has contributed to violent crime in south east london. Im not the problem , but part of the solution. I do not feel The Metropolitan police or Trident can reduce violent crime in London , this is not something I decided over my cornflakes. I am mixed race but if you saw me you would say im black. I have witnessed crimes by white people who then blamed black youths of the crimes when the police got involved. Ive been stopped and searched on a regular basis throughout being an adult. Im in my late 30s and do not have a criminal record or received a caution but I have my DNA on the national database.
The Black community in south london tend not to approach the police as we are looked upon as criminals anyway without committing a crime.
The Met Police introduced Trident so the Met does not have to deal with the case. I want the violence to stop not because I lived in woolwich and plumstead but for the black community who will be persecuted continually with more stop and searches and harrassment from the police. I never needed a weapon other than my hands to sort out my problems and did not need to mug anyone to buy a pair of trainers.
Immigration since the early 90s from Africa to Eastern Europe has contributed to violent crime in south east london. Im not the problem , but part of the solution. I do not feel The Metropolitan police or Trident can reduce violent crime in London , this is not something I decided over my cornflakes. I am mixed race but if you saw me you would say im black. I have witnessed crimes by white people who then blamed black youths of the crimes when the police got involved. Ive been stopped and searched on a regular basis throughout being an adult. Im in my late 30s and do not have a criminal record or received a caution but I have my DNA on the national database.
The Black community in south london tend not to approach the police as we are looked upon as criminals anyway without committing a crime.
The Met Police introduced Trident so the Met does not have to deal with the case. I want the violence to stop not because I lived in woolwich and plumstead but for the black community who will be persecuted continually with more stop and searches and harrassment from the police. I never needed a weapon other than my hands to sort out my problems and did not need to mug anyone to buy a pair of trainers.
Posted by: L on 2:47pm Tue 16 Oct 07
I agree to the above, I don't believe these kids want to be gangstas (as such), it has just got that bad that kids are believing that "that's life". I know not all kids carry weapons, but you only have to listen to the way they talk to know that something is seriously wrong...
I agree to the above, I don't believe these kids want to be gangstas (as such), it has just got that bad that kids are believing that "that's life". I know not all kids carry weapons, but you only have to listen to the way they talk to know that something is seriously wrong...
Posted by: Anon, London on 2:50pm Tue 16 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Anon[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Harvey[/bold] wrote: I\\\'m also sick of people making excuses for crimes and using every possible easy target to blame for any trouble, rather than the people involved themselves. I\\\'m tired of people saying that just because kids come from a poor or supposedly deprived background, there is some sort of justification for them getting involved in crime. It\\\'s utter rubbish. Getting involved in crime is a sign of weakness and stupidity, and has nothing whatsoever to do with race or where a person grew up. So what if places like Peckham, Lewisham or Thamesmead are a bit rough, it does not automatically follow that kids will end up on drugs or leading a life of crime as a wannabe gangster. It is about upbringing, knowing right from wrong and most of all it is about making the right personal choices. There can be no excuses or no-one / nothing to blame for being involved in gangs and crime other than suffering from a lack of brain cells or not having the backbone to stay away from trouble.[/quote] This comment made me laugh, why? Because ive seen personally parents struglle thorugh 2 keep their kids on the right path, encourage them to do the right thing. But to no avial, why becasue of the peer groups and enviornment, if you put a person in a jungle they will adapt with that enviornement to survive! By the government allowing this circle of deprevation to contiune, by allowing guns on our street its going to contiune. Do u remeber the days when people would beat eachother up, with FISTS? I do. Its changed in the space of 3-4years. how? Did the government just manage to miss the one arsenal shipment into the country?? NO PEOPLE. Lets think about it, guns didnt just appear out of no where. Comments like just cos ur from peckham etc....doesnt mean u should be a wannabe gangsta is crap. There not wannabe gangstats it what they see and breathe everyday. It\'s easy to say i packed up and moved. how did u do that!!?!? U HAD MONEY, WE DONT! Silly people, saying silly things. [/quote] I agree fully with this comment.
Some of the above comments have basically said that black people are to blame for the majority if not all gun crime, muggings etc... These people obviosuly have thought about it....NOT! People need to look deeper than the surface. ill admit maybe the majority of gun crimes are commited by black people. Why? Because they are running drugs for who? yes White people, you think that balck people are on top of the drug food chain! NO. You blame the Gov for failing schools, poor hospitals. Why not blame the hospital cleaners for MRSA obviosuly they are not cleaning the hospitals properly??! But we don't. why? It's funny to think that excatly the same thing goes on in crime, white people control the drugs, they control the gun imports, they are the milionaries drug barons who make the black people ([bold]who are stupid for doing it[/bold] ) rund the face value crime that we all see. So please people step out of ur shell, and see the bigger problem.
Anon wrote:
Harvey wrote: I'm also sick of people making excuses for crimes and using every possible easy target to blame for any trouble, rather than the people involved themselves. I'm tired of people saying that just because kids come from a poor or supposedly deprived background, there is some sort of justification for them getting involved in crime. It's utter rubbish. Getting involved in crime is a sign of weakness and stupidity, and has nothing whatsoever to do with race or where a person grew up. So what if places like Peckham, Lewisham or Thamesmead are a bit rough, it does not automatically follow that kids will end up on drugs or leading a life of crime as a wannabe gangster. It is about upbringing, knowing right from wrong and most of all it is about making the right personal choices. There can be no excuses or no-one / nothing to blame for being involved in gangs and crime other than suffering from a lack of brain cells or not having the backbone to stay away from trouble.
This comment made me laugh, why? Because ive seen personally parents struglle thorugh 2 keep their kids on the right path, encourage them to do the right thing. But to no avial, why becasue of the peer groups and enviornment, if you put a person in a jungle they will adapt with that enviornement to survive! By the government allowing this circle of deprevation to contiune, by allowing guns on our street its going to contiune. Do u remeber the days when people would beat eachother up, with FISTS? I do. Its changed in the space of 3-4years. how? Did the government just manage to miss the one arsenal shipment into the country?? NO PEOPLE. Lets think about it, guns didnt just appear out of no where. Comments like just cos ur from peckham etc....doesnt mean u should be a wannabe gangsta is crap. There not wannabe gangstats it what they see and breathe everyday. It\'s easy to say i packed up and moved. how did u do that!!?!? U HAD MONEY, WE DONT! Silly people, saying silly things.
I agree fully with this comment.
Some of the above comments have basically said that black people are to blame for the majority if not all gun crime, muggings etc... These people obviosuly have thought about it....NOT! People need to look deeper than the surface. ill admit maybe the majority of gun crimes are commited by black people. Why? Because they are running drugs for who? yes White people, you think that balck people are on top of the drug food chain! NO. You blame the Gov for failing schools, poor hospitals. Why not blame the hospital cleaners for MRSA obviosuly they are not cleaning the hospitals properly??! But we don't. why? It's funny to think that excatly the same thing goes on in crime, white people control the drugs, they control the gun imports, they are the milionaries drug barons who make the black people (
who are stupid for doing it ) rund the face value crime that we all see. So please people step out of ur shell, and see the bigger problem.
Posted by: Harvey on 3:02pm Tue 16 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Anon[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Harvey[/bold] wrote: I\'m also sick of people making excuses for crimes and using every possible easy target to blame for any trouble, rather than the people involved themselves. I\'m tired of people saying that just because kids come from a poor or supposedly deprived background, there is some sort of justification for them getting involved in crime. It\'s utter rubbish. Getting involved in crime is a sign of weakness and stupidity, and has nothing whatsoever to do with race or where a person grew up. So what if places like Peckham, Lewisham or Thamesmead are a bit rough, it does not automatically follow that kids will end up on drugs or leading a life of crime as a wannabe gangster. It is about upbringing, knowing right from wrong and most of all it is about making the right personal choices. There can be no excuses or no-one / nothing to blame for being involved in gangs and crime other than suffering from a lack of brain cells or not having the backbone to stay away from trouble.[/quote] This comment made me laugh, why? Because ive seen personally parents struglle thorugh 2 keep their kids on the right path, encourage them to do the right thing. But to no avial, why becasue of the peer groups and enviornment, if you put a person in a jungle they will adapt with that enviornement to survive! By the government allowing this circle of deprevation to contiune, by allowing guns on our street its going to contiune. Do u remeber the days when people would beat eachother up, with FISTS? I do. Its changed in the space of 3-4years. how? Did the government just manage to miss the one arsenal shipment into the country?? NO PEOPLE. Lets think about it, guns didnt just appear out of no where. Comments like just cos ur from peckham etc....doesnt mean u should be a wannabe gangsta is crap. There not wannabe gangstats it what they see and breathe everyday. It's easy to say i packed up and moved. how did u do that!!?!? U HAD MONEY, WE DONT! Silly people, saying silly things. [/quote] Yawn yawn yawn yawn and yawn. Yet more excuses.
Poor them, they have no money.
Poor them, they live in a 'jungle'. (What a joke - if you saw the conditions kids on some other cities around the world live in, you would know how pathetic saying south London is a 'jungle' really is)
Poor them, it's not their fault - the government is to blame for everything.
Boring.
I'm sick of people like you saying these murdering kids are only doing it because it's all they know or it's the only way they know how to behave. Utter tosh.
I was born in Woolwich and grew up in Thamesmead, and I haven't grown up to be a murdering thug. If it was the 'environment' to blame then everyone who grows up around here would grow up into criminals. But not everyone does. The ones who do turn to violence and drugs do so because of poor choices they make and because of poor parenting, by people like you who prefer to blame everyone and everything else for their own and their kids' failings.
